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October 21, 2014, 05:34:58 AM

Poll
Question: you vote for...  (Voting closed: November 01, 2004, 05:48:01 PM)
Bush (US Citizen) - 4 (30.8%)
Kerry (US Citizen) - 5 (38.5%)
Anything but Bush (US Citizen) - 0 (0%)
Abstain (US Citizen) - 2 (15.4%)
The Mad Bloke (Non-US Citizen) - 0 (0%)
The Mad Hair Bloke (Non-US Citizen) - 0 (0%)
Anything but Bush (Non-US Citizen) - 2 (15.4%)
Total Voters: 11

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Author Topic: ...and may god have mercy... (Bush vs Kerry)  (Read 5245 times)
JamesG
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« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2004, 07:28:14 AM »

he was slowly backing away for 5 hours and 11 minutes Thu, i dont think he would get your message Sad
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Shecky
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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2004, 07:31:34 AM »

*Backing away slowly... and metaphorically*

Better? Smile
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« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2004, 07:39:39 AM »

For what it's worth, my work place is exactly the opposite... extremely anti-Bush... So for the most part here,

- if you feel that the war in Iraq, although not perfect, was not a bad idea, you are labelled a war-monger who is lacking in common sense... even if you acknowledge somethings could have been done better.

- if you mention the bursting of the tech bubble as one of the reasons (not the reason, but one of them) for the decline in the economy, you are seen as naive and uninformed.

- if you mention that parts of the patriot act, not all but parts, have some merit, you are labelled a nazi.

- if you mention anything slightly positive about Bush you are considered "blind sheep, easily swayed by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh, and sadly misinformed about the realities of the last four years under Bush. "

And as of yet, I have not heard anyone at work give any reason to vote for Kerry other than "he is not Bush."

Now, I see pluses and minuses for both of the two major candidates... and I have my reasons for how I'm planning on voting, but I did feel I needed to let it be known that the Bushies aren't the only ones who seem so dogmatic that they won't even consider an alternative view on the issues...
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« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2004, 07:50:02 AM »

Supposedly, we went into war because we're liberating people from an awful dictator who did horrendous things to prisoners... Does Abu Gharib ring a bell, or, at least raise red flags that something is seriously wrong here?

What I find upsetting is that we're "liberating" a country with people who turn around and show their "appreciation" in the most barbaric ways to our soldiers and citizens helping them to rebuild. And then we have homeless people, decrepid schools in our own country. We can't even take care of ourselves and we're trying to rescue others? You know how it is on a plane... you put the mask on yourself before you put it on the child.
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« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2004, 08:01:15 AM »

Quote from: Thu
Supposedly, we went into war because we're liberating people from an awful dictator who did horrendous things to prisoners... Does Abu Gharib ring a bell, or, at least raise red flags that something is seriously wrong here?

And the people directly responsible are being punished according to the law... issue is how high up the chain of command you want to go in terms of holding people responsible...

Quote from: Thu
What I find upsetting is that we're "liberating" a country with people who turn around and show their "appreciation" in the most barbaric ways to our soldiers and citizens helping them to rebuild.

Despite the impression we sometimes get, it really is a "few" that are doing this. Many, many more are showing their appreciation by joining the Iraqi military, working side by side with our soldiers rebuilding schools and hospitals, etc...(source: emails from a soldier in Iraq, not just some conservative talking head)... but in the media, the story is never "nothing bad happened" it is always "this bad horrible thing occurred" because the bad news tends to get higher ratings...

Quote from: Thu
And then we have homeless people, decrepid schools in our own country. We can't even take care of ourselves and we're trying to rescue others? You know how it is on a plane... you put the mask on yourself before you put it on the child.


Although I feel the government could do more here at home, I also feel we have responsibilities abroad.  Would write more, but have to go mold and shape young minds... but I will add that we can help ourselves and don't have to always depend on/wait for the government to step in... if parents were more interested in improving the library than building the new football stadium (a definite issue in Texas) things might be going better here at home... needless to say, some personal bias in there...
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rpassmore
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« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2004, 08:19:38 AM »

I think the biggest problem we have right now, regarding the Iraq issue, is that people are only being fed what the corporate media filters, and that's all filtered via politics, and money.  Good news is bad news.

There are many many many good things happening in Iraq.  We are building (and rebuilding) schools, flying in supplies that they haven't been able to obtain since..um..ever? And lets not forget their hospitals, we're supporting them as well.

The barbaric atrocities that are being committed are not being done by the country's peoples, or in their interest.  If it were, you would not be able to find pictures and video's of the town's people's cheering and taking pictures of the americans as they come through, nor would you see anyone badmouth Saddam.   It has little to do with the US occupancy, whatever they might say in their videos, before they put the knives to their victims.  

Sure, one could ask "If it's not by the people's will, then why do the other citizens allow it?"  It all comes down to 2 things, Fear, and the will to live.  How many would report to the police, a person who wouldn't think once to kill you?  Think about how many victims we have here in the US, who don't report to the police their aggressors?  Spouses being abused by their spouse, children being abused and molested by adults, or other children.  Fear immobilizes a body.  A being's top priority is the survival of themselves and their offspring.  As long as the grim reaper passes your doorstop, you'd rather shut your windows and doors and ignore your neighbors screams.

This issue really has to do with decades of interference and a horrible foreign policy that former administrations have done, not the current occupancy.  It's sad, but Oil really has become the main interest of the US, and we've flexed every muscle we have to keep certain countries inline regarding that matter.

Unfortunately, I don't think any candidate can apply an easy fix.  So I'm being concerned with other matters, like outsourcing of jobs, environmental policies, and who's more likely to legalize a certain lovely flora. Haha just kiddin about that last part  Evil or Very Mad
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« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2004, 10:00:56 AM »

Quote from: GMTurner
Quote from: Thu
Supposedly, we went into war because we're liberating people from an awful dictator who did horrendous things to prisoners... Does Abu Gharib ring a bell, or, at least raise red flags that something is seriously wrong here?

And the people directly responsible are being punished according to the law... issue is how high up the chain of command you want to go in terms of holding people responsible...

Quote from: Thu
What I find upsetting is that we're "liberating" a country with people who turn around and show their "appreciation" in the most barbaric ways to our soldiers and citizens helping them to rebuild.

Despite the impression we sometimes get, it really is a "few" that are doing this. Many, many more are showing their appreciation by joining the Iraqi military, working side by side with our soldiers rebuilding schools and hospitals, etc...(source: emails from a soldier in Iraq, not just some conservative talking head)... but in the media, the story is never "nothing bad happened" it is always "this bad horrible thing occurred" because the bad news tends to get higher ratings...

Quote from: Thu
And then we have homeless people, decrepid schools in our own country. We can't even take care of ourselves and we're trying to rescue others? You know how it is on a plane... you put the mask on yourself before you put it on the child.


Although I feel the government could do more here at home, I also feel we have responsibilities abroad.  Would write more, but have to go mold and shape young minds... but I will add that we can help ourselves and don't have to always depend on/wait for the government to step in... if parents were more interested in improving the library than building the new football stadium (a definite issue in Texas) things might be going better here at home... needless to say, some personal bias in there...


this is why i would vote for bush, if i was old enough & lived in USA Thumbs Up
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« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2004, 10:24:32 AM »

Bush. Applause
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« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2004, 10:36:02 AM »

And at the same time, I should also add... if the government is going to impose certain requirements and restrictions on the local schools, then they should also help ensure that the funding necessary to meet those requirements is in place... It's sometimes hard to keep all of the issues in focus because they do overlap a considerable amount...
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Shecky
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« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2004, 06:41:53 PM »

Y'know, Kerry wouldn't have been my first choice for replacing Bush. That honor falls on a Republican (of all things), John McCain. But, since the only viable option for removing Bush from power is Kerry, he gets my vote...

... and he isn't really a bad person to place your vote with, by the way. A man who has distinguished himself with a lifetime of public service, known for being a steadfast supporter of women's reproductive rights (something I'm all in support of), as well as a variety of other noble causes. Even so, he is also a contemplative individual, who has the ability to rethink his position on a subject, as new information is brought to light. This is what he's been portrayed as a "Flip-Flopper" on, but in fact it simply shows that he's able to weight the fact, and not simply cling to his original conclusion which is shown to be wrong after new facts are introduced. Finally, not to make a big deal about this, but Kerry actually fought in a war (unlike Bush). I believe that gives him a truer grasp of the horrors of war than Bush, and he would be less likely to throw our soldiers lives away on shoddy Intelligence, or on a war for Oil and corporate interests.

Bush, on the other hand, refuses to acknowledge new facts that show his policies to be in error, steadfastly clinging to those failed policies. His "black & white" world view is not viable in this modern era, and has us aligning ourselves politically with countries that support terror (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Yemen, et al), while disregarding our old alliances that have proven to keep our interests over the years (a good portion of the EU and NATO). France doesn't count, and is a marginal world power at best. I don't care about them, and their clown-like antics have nothing to do with this debate, by the way.

The point here is, Bush has led us down a failed path. Thousands of civilians dead in two wars (only one of which had any real merit), and over a thousand of our own soldiers dead in Iraq. The economy is getting worse - not better - for most Americans, while Bush seems only interested in raising corporate profit margins by cutting their taxes yet again (just this week, in fact)! And while there are a few good ideas in the Patriot Act, overall, it is a nightmare for our civil liberties, and needs to be abolished immediately.

Bush needs to go. Kerry is the only candidate that has a hope of beating Bush in this election, so he gets my vote. We needs to win America back from the far-right, and get some sanity and reason back in the White House.
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