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Author Topic: Smooth transition from shared to dedicated?  (Read 1130 times)
MrPhil
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« on: May 22, 2006, 01:22:20 PM »

Right now I have a site on a shared server (Mizar). Almost every day I read horror stories about sites which used too many resources and were banished to the penalty box. Can I assume that these sites' customers lose contact because the IP address changes?

  • 1. How can I tell when I'm getting dangerously close to being banished? Assume it's because of a gradual growth in customer usage and not because my site has been hijacked or something. I've heard complaints that the server usage figures on cPanel or whatever are basically useless for the purpose of monitoring what your site is using!
  • 2. How can I best prepare for a transition to a dedicated server that would result in no more than a few minutes of scheduled downtime?
  • 3. If I have a dedicated IP address on the shared server (so I can get a private SSL certificate), will that come over to the new server? If not, do I need to run my site in parallel on shared and dedicated until all the DNS servers are updated? Is it possible to keep running the MySQL databases on the shared server while shifting PHP and other page-serving load over to the dedicated server? If so, can LP help me in transferring over the last bits (the databases) with minimal downtime?
  • 4. I've also heard complaints that even dedicated servers are unable to handle a moderately large load. Someone was saying that their dedicated server's e-Store bogged down with 70 or 80 customers on at one time. For planning purposes, are allowable loads described anywhere? I just don't want to pay a bunch more money each month, only to find out I've almost immediately outgrown the dedicated server!
  • 5. A few weeks back there was a major power failure and system outage (One Wilshire?). Am I correct in understanding that the shared servers get priority in being restarted, and dedicated servers have to wait for a while? Other than that one (hopefully) freak event, has this been a problem?

I'm just trying to address in advance all the possible problems I might have if/when my site outgrows a shared server and I have to move over to a dedicated server. I want this to be the least disruptive to my (future) customers as possible. In addition to an online store, I'm hoping to have some PHP-accessible services called from customer Web sites, for which service outages could be very costly. Can anyone share any experiences (painful or otherwise)? Thanks!

Phil
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stephan
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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2006, 04:14:10 PM »

Hi,

Sites which use up too many resources, which I must point out, is quite rare, do not suffer downtime. Dedicated IPs aren't moved across to the new server though, but like I said it's rare, and an alternative to suspension. Some hosts don't even offer this.

The word "banished" is extreme. You can just ask us if you are worried and we can tell you the usage statistics.

For a move to dedicated, there shouldn't be downtime. You would just copy the site across and set it up, then update the nameservers and the site will point across. It's just like when you moved your site to lunarpages originally.

The SSL certificate can be installed on the dedicated server. You will get a new IP address. Running the sites in parallel would be best. You can also keep the database on the shared server if you like, or just put a redirect to move all your traffic. Or, ask us to update the DNS zone on the existing nameservers. We can copy the site across from shared to dedicated for you. If you need it transferred again, we can copy the whole thing across. When it comes to moving individual parts of the site, you can do it yourself using the Cpanel backup tool on either server.

Sometimes people need to upgrade their ram if they go for the smallest server, which comes with 512 megabytes of ram. It just depends on the scripts. For example, my own server, which is Dedicated III can handle 90,000 + unique visitors a day without any problem, but some people have trouble with these numbers, due to their scripts. It just depends what you are running. If you find the server is slow, let us know, we can check it out and tell you why. Ram is sometimes the fix, but scripts which don't use caching are the root of the issue most of the time.

You aren't right about the priority of dedicated servers. They don't have to wait over shared. We have seperate teams working on both, they are both important and we have enough staff working at any one time to bring both up in the event of a failure, which is very unlikely.
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MrPhil
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2006, 07:07:00 PM »

OK, let's say I have a shared server site serving many customers -- too many customers -- and I need to move to a higher capacity dedicated server. I have a static IP address and a private SSL certificate (purchased through LP). My site has a number of busy MySQL databases, accessed through Perl CGI code and PHP Web pages. The day comes when I determine that I have to move (hopefully without a suspension or LP-initiated move to another server). How does this get done with an absolute minimum of disruption to my paying customers? Can LP offer guidance on making a smooth transition? Would I copy everything over to the new site, and then change DNS servers to point to it, or is it easier than that? Would I leave the databases running on the shared server for a while, until customers stop hitting them, then (with LP's assistance?) quickly move them over to the dedicated server? (Or, move them first.) I'm far from reaching this point (my site isn't even half built yet), but I want to set things up if I can so I can make a smooth move over if need be.

As for stephan's disklike of my wording, I'm just repeating things said by many unhappy LP customers over the past six months or so. Yes, I know, the squeaky wheel gets the grease and satisfied customers rarely speak up, but the unhappy ones' comments are all I have to go on. I don't want my business (paying customers) disrupted by being suddenly moved at LP's behest to a different IP address (unless incoming traffic can be immediately redirected to the new server -- is that the case?). Many LP customers have said they've found the usage statistics they have access to (cPanel and the like) to be basically worthless in warning that they're overloading shared servers. If LP doesn't mind my asking for statistics on a weekly basis, fine -- I just don't want my first inkling of a problem to be that I've been moved. Finally, unless my memory is faulty, I recall many dedicated server customers complaining that it took many hours for their sites to come up after the massive power failure. If that's not policy, but just accident, that's fine -- I'd just like to know before spending the money on a dedicated server at some point in the future.

Phil
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oxsley
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2006, 07:44:39 PM »

Phil... I'm on the shared plan and, like you, I had a lot of questions about the dedicated plan. You can see my post and Danielle's responses to my questions here.

Like you, I wish there was a more obvious and automated way of knowing if and when a site is getting close to the "excessive resource limit"... just so there would be some time to make plans for a transition. However, my guess is, sites rarely reach the limit. And probably in most cases, it's run-away scripts. You can send in a help ticket and ask for your "top processes" and how close you are to the limit, and they will get back to you. That's what I did, and learned I wasn't even close. Now, I don't get the 90K+ visitors that stephan gets, but I do get 1000 visitors per day, and about 20,000 page views per day, and each page is dynamically generated using PHP/MySQL. So, I'd say if your scripts are efficient, you can have quite a busy site before really needing a dedicated plan. Of course, the dedicated plan does give you more control over your setup too.
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GMTurner
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« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2006, 08:16:09 PM »

Just as a side-note/fyi/something sort of deal... I think there might be some lingering confusion about things after the last major power outage issue. I believe some customers (like myself) might have posted "guesses" about the order in which systems were brought back on-line. It is possible (and perhaps likely) that some of that speculation was incorrect, but never corrected by LP staff because they were more concerned with getting everything running again.

Also, after that incident, policy and procedure for handling such an incident might have been changed based on the experience. (Sometimes you don't know how something is going to work until you try it... and after doing it once, you realize it needs to change.) So, remember that what is mentioned in a thread at one point in time might not be the current state of things further down the road... this is especially true when you realize there are threads here that go back 4-5 years... and the forums are not an "official" support channel...

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The above post was made at a time when I gave a dang and doesn't necessarily reflect my current views or opinions.

For those no longer with us ... Grr..!!

The Redheaded Penguin
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