I added some good rebuttals to some of Jeff's commentators...it's a bit long, but a good read.  Be warned though, my responses are more in line with my Netter culture, so they may contain language which is seen as "bad" or "attackful" in some other cultures.  I try to be as tolerant as I can of such cultures however I do expect a certain degree of tolerance in return to my culture.

...respect, huh?  What does that get me?  No offense or anything, but every last filthy human on this miserable planet is going to be dead in less than a 150 years and the vast majority won't be remembered for anything, least of all whether or not they "respected" me or not.

The only thing I truly care about is building my level of skill, the skill of others and furthering and enhancing technique for use in greater forms of art and expression.  Your emotions and how you feel about me one way or another are worthless as far as I'm concerned unless you plan to use your hatred to further the advancement of human creativity...and that is very much the point.

I use what you call "trash talk" in order to illicit harsher responses out of people.  When you back someone into a corner, build up an ego and then start hammering them with it...they'll use everything they can find to "get back" at you.  Put in hours, days, sometimes even WEEKS worth of research and experimentation in the effort to "prove you wrong"...you may not like my methods...but my form of combative competition brings forth a level of understanding, debate and design that otherwise would have gone unpursued had everyone simply circle jerked around the issue.

If you don't like my posts however I would encourage you to stop reading them...otherwise it's obvious that you're simply LOOKING for a problem.  I can't really MAKE anyone feel anything, at the most all I can provide is opportunities for people to act on with whatever emotional stance they truly want to express...if that's hatred as it seems to be in your case...well that's on you, not me.  You may hate me, but it most certainly is not a shared failing.

Yea, it's a good read.

You've brought a new perspective on Flash and "web standards" to these forums. I appreciate it.

I hope it causes those who worship at the alter of the W3C to think about the rigidity of their position.

Well, I will admit I didn't read what was mentioned about Flash nor will I get into a long-winded Flash debate here as I'd like to return to the original question and my thoughts on what to use, which will be long-winded as well but more to the point for direct suggestions. Given what I currently have as a site (RubyAsylum.com), I am sure it will be no surprise where my post ends up going.

First, though, I wanted to say that for the new person learning a language or a script, since someone else mentioned AJAX earlier, I wanted to clarify that AJAX is not a programming language, it is a scripting language and you have to use it with another language in order for it to work, so you can't just learn it and go make web pages.  AJAX is basically a fancy new kind of JavaScript, which some people do have JavaScript disabled in their browser (10% of the internet public), so you have to make pages that work if it is turned off, too...some people also turn off Flash working in a browser and so they can't see flash sites. Another reason to have HTML-based pages.

Well, so what's all the talk then above about these being so great? What should I learn? In my opinion (this is all my opinion since it is my post, so that's likely a given) you should and must learn HTML/xHTML and CSS first.  The reason you need to learn these first is that they are the backbone of the internet for pages.  Even if you code in something else, your pages will have HTML/xHTML and CSS in almost all cases (or you will run into them when looking at another site or script that you want to use and must know how to edit them to re-use the script/code).  If you do not know these basic markup languages, then you are at a huge disadvantage. The benefit about them, however, is they are not hard to learn and there's a great site that you can learn them for free via examples:

www.w3schools.com

I used that site a long time ago when I was learning HTML/xHTML and I still refer to it for the CSS reference area.

After you've learnt HTML/xHTML and CSS, then my next suggestion is to decide what kind of look you like for sites and what kind of site you want to do.  If you are just going to use a pre-made script like a CMS, you should likely pick PHP as there are a ton of free scripts (www.hotscripts.com) out there to pick from for it, a lot of people using it to help you when you run into errors and so on. It is also pretty easy to figure out from looking at the code.

Shocking that I would recommend PHP eh? I don't particularly like PHP from a security standpoint. It is attacked a lot by hackers, has few coders (including professional) who work security into their scripts, and doesn't have a great, well-used organizational framework.  If you are concerned about these things, then I would suggest Ruby (using the Ruby on Rails framework) or JSP (Java language, not related to JavaScript scripting language).  Both have a great deal more security.  JSP is harder to learn and code than Ruby happens to be.  As such, if you are a first time coder, Ruby and Rails are more likely to be approachable to you. Additionally, likely the funniest guide to learning a language ever (and also free) is why's (poignant) guide to Ruby, which has such gems as:


Next, the Web 2.0 revolution for sites that have a definitive easier to read and simple setup were mainly Rails sites initially.  Rails has AJAX support built into it (so you can code Rails and then use AJAX). Code via Rails is faster to develop, especially because you do not have to write SQL code but can use database migrations (files written in Ruby using Rails and then push the file to build the database from the code, so never having to worry about learning SQL-specific code itself).  I cannot say 100% that Ruby on Rails will be the future and won't go out of vogue at some point, but unlike the corporate world, you can always keep using what you feel comfortable with (look at the perl/cgi programmers who continue to use it and successfully build sites) for your site and it doesn't matter if other people move on to some newer language like Troll or whatever new language someone invents someday.  Heck, the backbone of Ruby on Rails and PHP and the others is HTML/xHTML anyway with CSS, and so long as the browsers support those markup language technologies, your site will continue to work fine going forward.

In synopsis, my suggestion would be to learn HTML/xHTML and CSS, then to move onto PHP or Ruby on Rails, depending on what you are wanting to do.  The database type (MySQL or PostGRESQL) would be another consideration if you plan to have an SQL-driven site. If you do, MySQL is the more used database and more likely to corrupt/crash but faster type; PostGRESQL is the slower yet less likely to corrupt/crash and more secure type based on my experience as a system admin.  I would personally suggest PostGRESQL if you pick Ruby on Rails over MySQL if you are going for security and data integrity. If you are picking PHP, then go with MySQL as you are likely more interested in speed of setup and getting things running.

Also, I would be amiss if I didn't mention that PHP is on all of our servers, some having PHP 4 and a couple having PHP 5.  Ruby is on all our new general Linux servers (those without ASP and/or JSP), and Rails is supported in our Ruby setup on all those Ruby servers.  If you aren't on a server with Ruby, we can move you to one with it via a ticket to support@lunarpages.com and details such as your cPanel username or primary domain and the last 4 digits of your credit card on file with us (no charges apply) along with the request to move to a Ruby server.  We have 2 types of Ruby servers, those with mod_ruby/eRuby and those with FastCGI.  I highly suggest picking one with FastCGI as Ruby on Rails runs faster on it.

Have a Blessed Week

It takes hardly any time to learn it (around 1-2 months) and the sites you create are beautiful plus it is free to use and free to learn online (unlike ColdFusion, which is expensive for licensing). Most people learn a lot of stuff in college for the concepts and usually they learn C/C++ and Java there...I can't imagine they would spend 1000s just on Ruby classes or even be able to find 1000s of dollars worth of Ruby classes to take.

On the other hand, I feel sorry for anyone who spent money on the Flash application when you can get free Flash and ActionScript programs online. 

Sure, Mitch, I can try to help you learn it some more

Ok, keep me out of the flash bash, but I'll give my two cents. First, I like flash on some sites but hate it on others. If the site is music or art based, flash can contribute greatly. On the other hand, a site using flash to make words fly around and keep your attention should work on the content rather than the flash. If it's not keeping my attention without flash, the flash probably won't keep me there either.

Although javascript is more annoying to me than flash on some sites, I still think it has its place, just like any other programming language. I wouldn't use SQL for a single-page site advertising a life insurance company any more than I'd use Flash for emailing a helpdesk.

Personally, I agree that we should build on the basics. Start with HTML/xHTML and CSS, with an accent on learning accessibility. After that, personal choice, viewer demand or desire and knowledge are the key to adding the rest where appropriate.

Just my two cents... and you know how much ya get with that nowadays.